[Editor: This is part 1 of my conversation with former Police Chief LeRonne Armstrong. We sat with our coffee as he spoke to a variety of issues that have dominated media coverage lately. This transcript is mostly verbatim; I have lightly edited it for clarity.]
SH: So, what do you do these days?
LA: I’m a retired Chief of Police, and then I volunteer at Bishop O’Dowd High School, in Oakland, as a basketball coach.
And that takes up most of your time?
Oh, yeah, it’s a busy job. At the time when I decided to accept this role, I had no idea how much time it would require. But I know about basketball. I know about how it’s a daily job. So it’s been fun. It keeps me busy, for sure.
And the kids know who you are?
Yeah. It took them a while to, you know, understand who I was. But then, their parents begin to tell them who I was. [laughs] They knew I looked familiar, like they had seen me on a T.V. or something like that. And once I met with their parents—we had a meeting with all our team and all the parents—then they really began to understand who I was. Because I believe their parents started to educate them about it.
So did you run into anything where the kids had anti-police feelings, and how did you deal with that?
No. I think it actually worked out better that they didn’t know who I was initially, because they were introduced to me just as a new assistant coach. And obviously I have a basketball resume, and they were accepting of me because I have a history connected to basketball. So they got to know me as a person first, and then they over time learned who I am professionally. So there was never any sentiment as anti-police. I don’t believe, for them, that they even connect to it. I’m just Coach Armstrong, somebody that’s trying to help them every day, and they don’t worry about those sort of things.
What do you think about the two recalls, of Price and Thao?
Well, obviously, the people have a right to hold their elected officials accountable. I’m not one that’s saying anybody should be recalled. That’s not my stance. I think it’s important that every individual, of every city in the county, makes a decision about their leadership.
Have you decided how you will vote?
LA: I have not. I don’t want to publicly get behind any of these recalls, because I think it’s up to each individual voter to decide how they feel about their current circumstances. They have to vote with their conscience. They have to—if they don’t see a candidate doing things they would like to see, there’s ways in which they hold these elected officials accountable. And so I respect the process, and we’ll see what happens.
I think, among a large part of the voters, people don’t understand—I don’t fully understand—why Thao fired you. I know what the media coverage said, it was this alleged scandal. But I’ve heard all sorts of other theories, and I wonder, in your head, why you think you got fired.
I think it’s centered around the Federal Monitor [Robert Warshaw]. Unfortunately, I had the same faith as other police chiefs that when the Monitor decides he wants to get rid of you, he finds a way to do it. I think he had a huge influence on the Mayor’s decision to fire me. And I think it’s unfortunate that, as an African-American man who’s grown up in this city, who was born and raised in this city, who really took this [Chief’s] job to try and improve safety in this city, to have to deal with false allegations against you, and then be fired when you defend yourself.
What would Warshaw’s motive have been?
Well, I think the motivation is that this Federal oversight has been here for now 21 years. And I think we were the closest we’d ever been [to be released]. For the first time, we reached sustainability. The judge had given us an actual date when it was supposed to end. And so, I think that caused this investigation to be opened, particularly against me, and I think that’s what caused the false allegations. And when you look at the outcome of that investigation, June of 2023, and now it’s 2024, and they’re still under Federal oversight, and the Federal monitor’s still overseeing the Police Department. So I think there were motives, clearly, and I think the Mayor followed the direction of the Federal Monitor.
One theory, and it’s what I personally think, is that you were leading the Department too close to getting out of the Negotiated Security Agreement [NSA]—
Yeah—
And Mr. Warshaw decided he really rather likes his position, and so maybe we need to get rid of Chief Armstrong and let him [Warshaw] get a few more years. Is that conspiracy theory?
Well, I don’t know what his actual motive is, but I think clearly the Department has not been engaged in any scandals or any behavior that would show that they’re not following all of their policies. It’s clear to me that the culture of the Department has changed, where officers are actually trying to police in a Constitutional way, and there doesn’t appear to be a real reason why Federal oversight needs to continue, except finding small issues that he [Warshaw] could attach himself to, to maintain oversight. I think if you were to look at any police department you would see that no police department is perfect, just like no company is perfect, right? There’s always areas that can be improved, but it doesn’t mean the department needs to be held under Federal oversight.
Is it frustrating for you to see the media—I’m thinking specifically of the San Francisco Chronicle because it is the biggest media in the Bay Area—and anytime they write about this, upfront they get “The Riders.”
Right.
Which was, what, 23 years ago? How do you feel about that?
I think it is, again, a media sort of driving the narrative, to play the police against the community. It’s sad, because these young officers who are currently working at the Oakland Police Department weren’t even there in 2002, when the NSA was reached. So that’s unfortunate, that they still should get painted with this broad brush: misconduct and inappropriate behavior, when that’s actually not what they’re doing every day. It’s tough to see, because I hired hundreds of those young officers, and I know that they have come in with the right mindset and heartset, to try to do better, try to make this city safer. But they continue to face attacks constantly. So what’s sad is that activist groups are going to continue to push their agenda, and I think we as a city have to support public safety because clearly there are so many people in our community who are suffering. That’s what makes me feel every day, that’s the disappointment I feel, because I’m not able to help. I was retaliated against because I spoke out against the Federal monitor.
What kind of leverage would Warshaw have had over Sheng Thao to get her to fire you at his behest?
I think the leverage is, every politician wants to be the politician in the seat when Federal oversight is over. And they want the credit for that. It’s a huge feather in your cap.
So Thao would want the NSA to end.
Yes, but on her watch. And Warshaw sort of dangled that feather in front of her face, that “You will be the person who leads this department and city out of Federal oversight.”
But in persuading her to fire you, he kicked the can down the road, so the NSA will not end as soon as it could.
Yeah.
So did Thao not understand that? Or does she think she’ll still be here in three or four years?
I’m sure her thought is that eventually it will end under her watch, and so I think these are the same promises he made to me. That I would be the Chief who would get this department out of Federal oversight. I think, you want to end Federal oversight because you know it’s in the best interests of the city. Maybe it can help to regain public trust in the department. We all want it to end, but we can’t make rash decisions because of that, we can’t let our own desires to get in front of what’s in the best interests of the city. And I think that’s what happened in this case. Ambition to be that person to be in the seat, and take credit for the end of Federal oversight, definitely contributed to why people made decisions. And when I spoke about my feelings about Federal oversight and what was being done, that’s when I faced retaliation.
Tomorrow: Part 2
Steve Heimoff